[Dream/Game] - Busou Shinki MMO

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[Dream/Game] - Busou Shinki MMO

Postby ArcticKitsune » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:13 pm

Before I start - No, this is not about Battle Rondo! This is just something working on from my few dreams of Busou Shinki Renge & how she keeps appearing in it as a costume for a game. There was this one 3D game (think RPG or MMO - Dragon's Dogma, PSO2, Tera, Guild Wars and etc, yet anime) were most Shinkis were in, just not the later Shinkis. Renge was however added in the form of a costume - head, body, legs, weapon and etc. I want to spin this around into a different way however.

I'm assuming we could simply snatch a RPG game maker somewhere and use that to make a generic Busou Shinki game, minus the multiplayer. Pretty sure there is at least one out there that could allow us to make an RPG Busou Shinki game.

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- Busou Shinki MMO - Idea:

- Free-Roam: - Think Pokemon, yet without the grass fighting and grinding. Just something to pop in and have fun without commanding your Shinki, only focusing on repairs, training and telling your Shinki what to do while waltzing around Japan, and possibly the world. You would go around fighting other Busou Shinki's via Masters out in the street, Konami Centers, or even tournaments.

- Shinki Taming: - Rondo dialogue mixed with Battle Masters shop purchase (all Shinkis in). You would purchase from the store (or second-hand), properly registering it via store or home computer (Battle Rondo, Moon Angel, & TV-esque). From then on your Shinki would learn your behavior and just follow your habits (most likely Rondo yet pulling from Dragon's Dogma Pawn system, minus the speech spam.)

- Battles: - Challenge any Shinki Master on the street, at a Konami center, or tournament. Even have rare random ones as you travel around Japan, or even the world. How would they work? Both parties would have to consent (not Pokemon where you are forced), toss out a visualizer, and then tell your Shinki how to fight, if needed. They would then be seen fighting in real-time, without turns, just fighting it out. Just have them seen attacking one another. If you want control have the Ride-On gear installed?

- Training: - Similar to Pawns in Dragon's Dogma both you would give your Shinkis answers on how you want them to behave when you register them, and after they are registered. You could allow your other Shinkis (if you got any) to fight with them in a training way. They would be seen jumping around the room or training center as they train. You could prompt them to stop by vocal or hand signals. Of course, you could tell them what to train...

- Maintenance: Need to equip and maintain them or else they'll simply fall apart. After every fight you will need to maintain them and to repair them however you need. Don't worry, nothing complex...just replacement legs or limbs to something as simple as a body health bar (Gundam Battle records for PS3 style) to repair your Shinkis.

- Bonus - CBox Masters: - We get added as a random encounter or opponent in the region we occupy. We could be pop up randomly as opponents in the arcades, maybe even in tournaments while being contactable across the world. We would have our Shinkis of choice yet only choose certain ones for our duels.

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Pretty sure people will just glance and move on but for those that are trying to program should give this a go. As mentioned there should be some form of game-making program to give us a start on designing at least something from the above.

If that is too much maybe start at the Pokemon Color games and just replace all the sprites and Pokemon with Busou Shinki sprites and moves to it? Remove all the random encounters for the tall-grass and water, only adding rebattle-able opponents in gyms and similar?

If anybody is in let me know and I'll try and call back my old buddies I once knew from my modding days and we'll see how to pull this one off. If interested, try poking around your social web as well so we can make this happen if genuinely interested. Got any ideas? List them and let's work out a general of making it work.
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Re: [Dream/Game] - Busou Shinki MMO

Postby Adventwings » Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:36 am

Sounds like a Busou Shinki spin on Custom Robo. I've played Arena (haven't cleared it, mind you) and most of what you listed there hit on many of the points already implemented in the game. The gameplay is closer to Battlemasters since you control them via MindLink (or whatever equivalent term they use).

I... will admit here that coding and 3D is not listed on my list of skills. I'll be able to provide artwork should you need some ideas. Good luck. =w=);;
<<Should you fail, try and try again.>>
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Re: [Dream/Game] - Busou Shinki MMO

Postby Klinkin » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:41 pm

I'm going to be starting a game-development program this semester, so I can help. I'm going to be working with 3DS Max, the Unity engine and C#.

While the Battle Rondo style of training has its merits, I would personally prefer a Battle Masters-style direct control (which should also be easier to program). I agree that Custom Robo should be a strong influence, but Shinki should be characters in their own right. Perhaps make it somewhat like a cross between Tera and a MOBA as far as control goes; you can issue direct orders to your Shinki, or let them fight on their own (and depending on their personality, they might even gainsay orders); to incentivize not constantly microing your Shinki, give the player additional responsibilities in battle as a sort of mission control (spotting targets, setting objectives, and directly controlling robot-mode armors).
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Re: [Dream/Game] - Busou Shinki MMO

Postby ArcticKitsune » Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:29 am

- Busou Shinki - Minecraft Mod

A Busou Shinki Mod for Minecraft taking inspiration from - Clay Soliders + Golems (Thaumcraft) + Turtles (Computercraft) + LittleMaids.


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- LittleMaids mod - http://forum.minecraftuser.jp/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=176
- Thaumcraft (Golem) - http://feed-the-beast.wikia.com/wiki/Golems
- Turtles (Computercraft) - http://computercraft.info/wiki/Turtle

---

Been trying to get a Busou Shinki mod idea going with nobody willing to help. Who is interested or wanting to help getting it going?

Each mod's coding would work into Busou Shinkis and accessories. I would however prefer them behaving like Littlemaids mixed with accessories for Golems. Littlemaids allows people to equip them with swords and armor while having them do your boring chores for you. As for the Golems? You can dress them up with little clothing that'll give them boosts and even have the fight. Golems also fight with mobs. Having them behave as LittleMaids and Golems would give them more freedom to do as they wish.

I mentioned Turtles because they're the primitive form of Busou Shinkis with being able to be programmed to do things. They also can be given accessories for specific tasks. Clay Soldiers allows players to play "King Of The Hill" type battles using Clay infantry.

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- Busou Shinki Craft - Minecraft:

- Alternate Thread - http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/569 ... ou-shinki/

Each Shinki should be crafted from a Busou Shinki crafting bench and registered using a computer of some sort. From there we should have them made out of iron bars for body, redstone, diamonds, lapis, and even the nether quarts for the body. From that we would get the "Naked" Shinkis only able to do very basic stuff. To upgrade to a specific Shinki we could create chips mixed in with ores and flowers to paint and program Shinkis into Arnval, Strarf, Renge, Gab and etc.

Weapon and attachments could come from adding chips into weapons to assign them to specific Shinkis. Similar to how us, LittleMaidsMod, and even Golems equip we could do so normally by crafting specific armors to mix and match.

As for being hostile to mobs or not could be checked in-game in a pop-up menu. They could be ordered to patrol specific areas, to tend to your ores, and to be tasked with stuff in a more basic way (LittleMaids style).

As for fighting one another? We would be tasked with creating arenas and they would just end up fighting one another using the bat flying mechanics, Skeli's bow, IC2's lasers, and etc. What if they fall into lava or cliff? They should survive falls while also trying to avoid lava at all costs. If all else fails just make them immune to it like Turtles.


-> BS Work Bench - Fancy with being able to create a register computer (Name and type of Shinki). As a bonus we should see Shinkis (in parts and complete) on the bench.

-> Shinki Registration Computer - Able to activate, register, and name Shinkis, even if 'Naked'. Should be given the option of attaching onto the bench or to be a stand-alone for design and eye-candy. MMS Chip would be used here to label the chip of what Shinki you want.

-> Busou Shinki Limbs - To make the body we could make them out of iron ingots within the BS Work bench. You would however gain double or even triple the parts due to the size of the ingot and Shinkis.

-> MMS Chip - This chip would be made then placed into the Shinki Registration Computer to give it a Type and Shinki you want to craft. You would craft it then place it in a computer of already placed in Shinkis to make "Naked", Arnval, Strarf or whatever Shinki.

-> MS Naked - First Shinki able to be made only able to do very basic stuff with very basic AI.

-> Weapons & Gear - Crafted in the BS Work Bench and given 2-3 times as many for Shinki use. Craft normal vanilla or Busou Shinki gear. They would be attached as if they were the player and wear them as if they were LittleMaids or Golems.

-> Cradle - As with anything from IC2 they should be able to recharge on the cradle. Cradle would be wool, iron, redstone, and a diamond. Placing them here would keep them in place, unless otherwise specified. Cradle needs to lock Shinkis into place if you don't want them wandering around.

*Note: As painful as it is for me I'm trying to keep things simplified. Any specific features can be pondered about after. Help me find people that can make this a reality! Sounds would also be pulled from Battle Rondo, Battle Masters, and even Nico videos.

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-> The Lazy way: Skinning MyLittleMaids with Shinki skins. Tada!~
Last edited by ArcticKitsune on Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:28 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: [Dream/Game] - Busou Shinki MMO

Postby halconfenix » Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:53 am

Klinkin wrote:I'm going to be starting a game-development program this semester, so I can help. I'm going to be working with 3DS Max, the Unity engine and C#.

While the Battle Rondo style of training has its merits, I would personally prefer a Battle Masters-style direct control (which should also be easier to program). I agree that Custom Robo should be a strong influence, but Shinki should be characters in their own right. Perhaps make it somewhat like a cross between Tera and a MOBA as far as control goes; you can issue direct orders to your Shinki, or let them fight on their own (and depending on their personality, they might even gainsay orders); to incentivize not constantly microing your Shinki, give the player additional responsibilities in battle as a sort of mission control (spotting targets, setting objectives, and directly controlling robot-mode armors).



I like this idea....
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Re: [Dream/Game] - Busou Shinki MMO

Postby nascar241993 » Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:13 am

Klinkin wrote:I'm going to be starting a game-development program this semester, so I can help. I'm going to be working with 3DS Max, the Unity engine and C#.

While the Battle Rondo style of training has its merits, I would personally prefer a Battle Masters-style direct control (which should also be easier to program). I agree that Custom Robo should be a strong influence, but Shinki should be characters in their own right. Perhaps make it somewhat like a cross between Tera and a MOBA as far as control goes; you can issue direct orders to your Shinki, or let them fight on their own (and depending on their personality, they might even gainsay orders); to incentivize not constantly microing your Shinki, give the player additional responsibilities in battle as a sort of mission control (spotting targets, setting objectives, and directly controlling robot-mode armors).


You have an excellent idea! And good luck on the course! :)
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Re: [Dream/Game] - Busou Shinki MMO

Postby Klinkin » Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:47 pm

Thanks!

I've been theorycrafting on how to make the Shinki battle AI work; right now, I'm tossing around an idea based off five attributes, each opposing two others:

Obedience: Primarily determines how long a Shinki will follow an order or set thereof before starting to deviate. Low obedience results in the Shinki second-guessing your orders and sometimes even ignoring them. Obedience opposes assertiveness and entitlement.

Aggressiveness: Determines how, well, aggressive a Shinki is. Aggressive Shinkis will attack an opponent instead of waiting, push any advantages they think they have, and go on the offensive. They also like melee and close-quarters combat more than ranged combat. If you leave an aggressive Shinki with only moderate obedience alone, they'll go for straight-up attacks and try to close with an opponent, and they will rarely retreat. Aggressive Shinkis have troubles sitting still and waiting, though if obedient enough, they'll do so when ordered. Aggressiveness opposes entitlement and timidness.

Assertiveness: How individualistic a Shinki is. An assertive Shinki will make their opinion known, often through action, and dislike being micromanaged. A Shinki with a high assertiveness will often second-guess or even ignore orders and do their own thing. Assertiveness opposes obedience and timidness.

Entitlement: An entitled Shinki feels that they shouldn't always be doing all of the work. While not always lazy (though they come off that way sometimes), entitled Shinkis dislike overexerting themselves and would rather take things the easy way. They'll often ignore orders they see as hard or dangerous. They're also liable to flee if things get tough. Entitlement opposes aggressiveness and obedience.

Timidness: A timid Shinki is a scardey-cat, plain and simple. They like hiding in cover and waiting for everything to be over, or, barring that, staying at a nice and safe distance. They're hard to order into close-range combat or even out of cover. They do have little problem sniping from extreme ranges, though. Timidness opposes aggressiveness and assertiveness.

In general, each Shinki would likely have two of the above that don't oppose. For example, a timid obedient Shinki would be a good long-range fighter, but could be forced away by a fast Shinki getting into close-quarters. An aggressive obedient Shinki has the mentallity of a trained attack dog, and can be counted on to go after one opponent at the exclusion of everything else. An assertive aggressive Shinki will go after the opponent they want to fight whether you like it or not, an assertive entitled Shinki will order the master around, and a timid entitled Shinki is just whiny and not particularly good in combat if left unsupported.

These would all be compounded by other mental stats, such as intelligence (likelyhood of choosing an effective strategy), skill (ability to hit the enemy), and, of course, affection for master (a happy Shinki who likes their master is in general a better fighter). That's in addition to all the physical stats, of course.

As for controls, I think that perhaps allowing the player to choose one of three tiers of control would work. Here's what I'm thinking:

Action: The player directly controls the Shinki. When doing so, the Shinki's mental attributes will rarely impact play, but the master is also locked into the Shinki's perspective. A skilled player can use this mode to great effect in straight-up combat, but might suffer on a tactical level. This mode would play like a third-person action shooter. However, such a direct mental link is intrusive; resentment on the part of the Shinki can disrupt the link, resulting in poor handling. However, a Shinki that is truly close with their master will move as fast as their master can think, outstripping the skill and effectiveness of all but the most skilled autonomous Shinkis.

Command: This would play more like a MOBA; the player gets a wider view and more information. Instead of directly controlling the Shinki, they issue orders, which can be relatively specific-move to this cover, attack the enemy with this weapon, and such. It can still be said that the player is playing as the Shinki, though this mode is also where the Shinki's AI starts being a concern. An effective commander needs to find a playstyle that the Shinki is both comfortable with and capable of. However, thanks to computer-aided targeting and better reflexes, a skilled Shinki can usually fight more effectively than one being directly controlled.

Support: This is the Battle Rondo style. The Shinki fights on their own, making their own decisions. The player can still mark objectives, but it's up to the Shinki to choose how to accomplish them. On the plus side, the player has a near-omniscient view of the battlefield, and can warn Shinkis of incoming ambushes and hidden enemies. A smart, well-trained Shinki fits well with this style.
A sub-set of this tier is support bot. A select few armors can transform into robot modes, turning a fight into a two-on-one. Normally, the robot mode's simple AI cannot handle much more than basic targeting, and the Shinki controls it almost like a part of their body or other weapon. However, the player can take direct control, providing coordinated support to their Shinki, blending the support and action modes.

What I'd like to see is not only fights between two players using different modes, but also the ability to swap on the fly. A truly great player would be constantly switching modes. In team play, the support mode would be near-essential to the team, while a few skilled action-mode users would make up the front line of the fight and commanders would maneuver Shinkis to flank, snipe, and support.
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Re: [Dream/Game] - Busou Shinki MMO

Postby ArcticKitsune » Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:41 pm

Wow! Nice impressive ideas there Klinkin. I don't want to mess anything up, just want to point out some stuff however. *points past the ---*

For the "Command" I hope the Ride-On gear was thought of in there. Shinkis should only be directly merged with only if the Ride-On gear is being used, the rest can focus on what you said and how good the Master-Shinki cooperate with one another.

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Custom Robo? Seems player-controlled. I'm ignoring that because I want it to feel more like Pokemon Yellow mixed with free-roaming and thinking Shinkis. Pokemon Yellow's following feature mixed in with Dragon's Dogma's learning pawn system that could also borrow from Battle Rondo. Something probably got lost in thought-transfer so I might not be seeing the whole thing with Custom Robo, probably like-wise with Poke-Yellow and DD.

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Updated second post for those Minecrafters in here.
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Re: [Dream/Game] - Busou Shinki MMO

Postby Klinkin » Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:01 pm

ArcticKitsune wrote:For the "Command" I hope the Ride-On gear was thought of in there. Shinkis should only be directly merged with only if the Ride-On gear is being used, the rest can focus on what you said and how good the Master-Shinki cooperate with one another.

I'm assuming any master who actually is going to be seriously battling is going to have a Ride-On gear. Comparing it to Pokémon, it's like how any trainer is going to have Pokéballs, potions, and such.

When it comes down to it, in my opinion Battle Rondo's fighting system was quite limited. A complete lack of master input meant that if your Shinki decided to be stupid, they'd get beaten. That's one of the things I was going for in my control ideas; a skilled master can make up for the shortcomings of a Shinki, and vise-versa. For example, in Command mode, a master can order a Shinki to avoid melee combat and instead keep at a distance and use ranged attacks, keeping an aggressive Fort Bragg from trying to melee a Strarf, for instance. However, most Shinkis can't just be told "always melee" or "always range"; an Arnval, for example, should range a Strarf but melee a Fort Bragg. Also, Battle Rondo had no terrain and really only had one dimension of movement. I think Battle Masters is much better in that perspective.
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Re: [Dream/Game] - Busou Shinki MMO

Postby halconfenix » Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:49 pm

Klinkin wrote:
ArcticKitsune wrote:For the "Command" I hope the Ride-On gear was thought of in there. Shinkis should only be directly merged with only if the Ride-On gear is being used, the rest can focus on what you said and how good the Master-Shinki cooperate with one another.

I'm assuming any master who actually is going to be seriously battling is going to have a Ride-On gear. Comparing it to Pokémon, it's like how any trainer is going to have Pokéballs, potions, and such.

When it comes down to it, in my opinion Battle Rondo's fighting system was quite limited. A complete lack of master input meant that if your Shinki decided to be stupid, they'd get beaten. That's one of the things I was going for in my control ideas; a skilled master can make up for the shortcomings of a Shinki, and vise-versa. For example, in Command mode, a master can order a Shinki to avoid melee combat and instead keep at a distance and use ranged attacks, keeping an aggressive Fort Bragg from trying to melee a Strarf, for instance. However, most Shinkis can't just be told "always melee" or "always range"; an Arnval, for example, should range a Strarf but melee a Fort Bragg. Also, Battle Rondo had no terrain and really only had one dimension of movement. I think Battle Masters is much better in that perspective.


you have a point there... but that's precisely what i dont like about battle masters... where doesnt really matter how well (or how badly) trained a shinki AI is... all of that gets "thrown in the garbage" when the master assumes direct control of the shinki and all the shinki can do by herself is... talk... and that's no different from a game like... dragon ball tenkaichi (to put a dumb example)...

the idea would be more like a "real time battle rondo", which is pretty much like battle masters except the shinki really does those things by herself... of couse the master must be there, but pointing things out at the shinki, planning the strategies and that sort of thing (that would be the "rondo" part...), one possible advantage of this mode is that you are not limited too see the battle from a "chase" camera but actually seeing the battles in a more... "cinematic" way, with different angles and all that stuff... specially when the shinki can make some special move (it was called rail action on the BM game if i remember right) and seeing it from a more dramatic angle... well you get the idea...
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